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Board: Share Exchange Date: 8/13/2005 10:43:42 PM
Author: mac0118
Subject: 635/880 - you may find this funy buuut......
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Message: 45
smallpig36 on 8/12/2005 4:29:22 PM

Hello all,
i received my bmo sharein the mail today from
Kris.
my name and address are on the back in the transferred to section
hmmmmmmmmmmmm now what do I do?

is this mine or is there more paperwork?

small pig 36 aka piggie just trying to get by.


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maddybeagle on 8/12/2005 4:44:26 PM

for the certificates, you have to fill in your info. on the back and mail back to the transfer agent. I think the transfer agent has forms too that you can download. I just started enbridge with a certificate and there was a form and you can include a ocp and mail back. I printed out one of those "anti-money laundering" thingees too so hopefully they dont bother me again;)
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OperaBob on 8/12/2005 5:58:34 PM

piggie,

i received my bmo sharein the mail today from
Kris.
my name and address are on the back in the transferred to section
hmmmmmmmmmmmm now what do I do?

is this mine or is there more paperwork?

Assuming Kris signed it a had his signature guaranteed just mail it to Computershare and to be registered in the DRIP. (You might be able to download a registration off the website).

ComputerShare
9th Floor, 100 University Avenue
Toronto, ON, M5J 2Y1

1-800-340-5021

You could try sending in your first OCP at the same time but I'm not sure how the new Anti_Money Laundering form affects that. CS personalizes these forms but they might have a generic on the website.

Congratulations.

OB
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OperaBob on 8/12/2005 5:59:51 PM

One other thing.

I just send them regular mail but photocopy them first to cover loss. CS will send the single with your name on it regular mail.

OB
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bucejos on 8/12/2005 6:51:49 PM

They will accept your first OCP payment without the anti-money laundering form. And I do not believe that CS has a generic one like CIBC Mellon does.

Jose
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mac0118 on 8/12/2005 10:58:31 PM

Piggie,

I just sent mine in with my DRIP/OCP registration form with OCP cheque. One thing is that I didn't find the registration form on the website. The only option you have is to select an option for them to send you the documentation and registration form by mail. I did this about a month ago so that it would be here by the time the share arrived by mail. This doesn't stop you from forwarding the share cert. for processing and forwarding back to you.

OB, I don't photocopy the share certs before sending. I do copy the certificate number and previous owner info for reference. As I'm aware, only the registered owner can request a replacement if lost. If they never receive it not sure what photocopying will do for you.

Is there something I'm missing?

Mac
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OperaBob on 8/13/2005 12:48:56 AM

Mac,

I photocopy so I can place it in my file folder as I have a tendency to lose the little pieces of paper I write the numders on.

OB
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Setepen2 on 8/13/2005 9:44:55 PM

I am really glad you started this thread, because I had the same questions. I also got my BMO (thanks Kris!). I asked for the authorization forms form Computershare to be mailed to me but I guess it will take some time. If I understand correctly, I can mail the BMO share right away and they will start the DRIP ?

Thanks!
Set
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Setepen2 on 8/13/2005 9:57:35 PM

One more newbie question... since this will be my first Canadian drip :) Does computershare allow OCPs by internet transfer like AST&T does, or will I have to mail in cheques every time the old fashioned way ?

Set
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mac0118 on 8/13/2005 10:43:42 PM

"If I understand correctly, I can mail the BMO share right away and they will start the DRIP ?"

Answer: They will register the one share in your name but they won't setup the DRIP until you send in the DRIP registration form once it arrives in the mail.

"Does computershare allow OCPs by internet transfer like AST&T does, or will I have to mail in cheques every time the old fashioned way ?"

Answer: No internet transfers. We're old fashioned here is Canada. After all, we have to keep Canada Post in business somehow.

Mac


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toolsntoys4u on 8/13/2005 11:32:55 PM

Set

once you get the authorization form for BMO DRIP would you be able to email it or fax it to me please?

tools
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maddybeagle on 8/14/2005 12:07:44 AM

https://www-us.computershare.com/investor/plans/planslist.asp?planid=83&state=eStateDisplayPlanSummary

It doesnt look like you can download the "stuff", but can request by mail to start...
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kwidla on 8/14/2005 12:33:45 PM

OB,
For Computershare you can send first OCP, without "money-laundering" paperwork. After that they will not accept any more without that form.
I'm still waiting for them to send me that form, as I can't find it on the net.



Smallpig,
Please send them also a short letter explaining what you want them to do (Transfer share to your name, and enroll in a DRIP).


Kris
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kwidla on 8/14/2005 12:36:08 PM

Set,
You will have to mail in the cheque. I already asked them.
Kris

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kwidla on 8/14/2005 1:26:32 PM

Small pig,
I had few options on how to get shares from me to you.
I decided to get 12 single certificates, so that I would send each individual one certificate, and than they would "be in control".
If something goes wrong, only one person would be affected (versus 12).
I could send single shares to people as they send me cheques (they and I didn't have to wait for everyone to get it done, as some people did it quickly, and some slower).
Nobody is thinking what is going on, and asking me questions, as they now know what is going on, and they can ask TA (Computershare) of what is happening, and when they can expect to recieve their certificate, as well as send OCP if they wish to do that.
Please understand that this is a long process, and 12 people were involved. If you have any questions please e-mail me, and I will try to help.

In the mean time MAKE SURE everything in the back of the certificate is as it should be (your name, address, etc.) Please also ADD your SIN (social insurance number) (hey this is not going to me, but to the TA that will require it for tax purpouses). And get your DRIP started by sending OCP (if that is what you wish to do)!

Good luck to all.


KRIS

PS. I hope that people can appreciate that it was easier for me, and in my opinion a little better for them.

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IKan on 8/14/2005 3:08:05 PM

In the mean time MAKE SURE everything in the back of the certificate is as it should be (your name, address, etc.) Please also ADD your SIN (social insurance number) (hey this is not going to me, but to the TA that will require it for tax purpouses). And get your DRIP started by sending OCP (if that is what you wish to do)!


I have bought single shares from people before and have never had to put my SIN on the back of a certificate or give it out to anyone other than the transfer agent. You can do that afterwards via the phone or the TA's secure internet.

I just bought a BMO share from gitterm via Interact E-mail Money Transfer which is via the major banks. I get none of his person banking info and vise versa. It took approximately 15 minutes for him to receive the money into his bank account from start to finish.

It went like this: I asked him via email if he would sell me one share. He emailed me the total price. I went to my banks website and sent him the cash. Done deal. Just like that!

I do not understand why you guys are going the cheque & mail route. I will simply get a share certificate from the TA in a few weeks. He does not have to mail anything to me! I can check at the TA's website occasionally and see when a share is registered in my name, and then I know it will arrive via the mail in 1 - 2 weeks.

That is the way it worked when I got my BNS.

IKan

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IKan on 8/14/2005 3:18:20 PM

I should add 2 things:

1). I do give the name and address that I want on the share certificate to the seller via e-mail. Also we exchange phone #'s just in case we need to talk.

2). With the Interact E-mail Money Transfer the sender does enter a question with the transfer and the sender is then supposed to phone the recipient with the answer to the question so they can receive the money. My questions to date have been quite obvious the last couple times with gitterm and I did not have to phone him this last time. I do email him to let him know I have sent the money. He would e-mail or phone me if there was a problem. I (the sender) do get a received confirmation email from the bank once the transfer is completed successfully.

IKan
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mac0118 on 8/14/2005 4:01:28 PM

IKAN,

This works great for people who deal with one of the "big 5" banks. This option is not available at smaller institutions. I would hate to see this as the only accepted method of cash transfer in the future.

Mac
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mac0118 on 8/14/2005 4:26:46 PM

IKAN

"I do not understand why you guys are going the cheque & mail route."

Even if I had the oportunity to use email cheques, I don't think that I would for security reasons. I'm still not comfortable with the level of security our banks are offering in relation to on-line banking and internet purchases.

Cases in point......

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/20/mastercard_phishing/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/21/mastercard_follow-up/

Until they can clean up some of their security issues...I'll stick with cheque, envelope and a stamp.

Old Fashioned Mac
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IKan on 8/14/2005 5:45:01 PM

Good points Mac.

However, as we all know nothing is 100% secure.
Once a cheque is given so is the branch and account #, along with your signature. Easy to replicate from this point.
Providing Canada Post gets it to the intended destination.

I do not know if other financial institutions beyond the 5 major CDN. banks offer on-line transfers of varying types.

No matter which financial institution is used they all use electronic means to transfer the money. Even in response to a cheque. So all money is exposed to electronic pros & cons (no pun intended). Unless you deliver it cash-in-hand. Even then you can get fraudulent bills.

So we all do whatever we are comfortable with and have luck with.

Have a great day.

IKan
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mac0118 on 8/14/2005 6:40:24 PM

IKan wrote....

"However, as we all know nothing is 100% secure."

True...but the internet makes it so much faster.

IKan wrote....

"Once a cheque is given so is the branch and account #, along with your signature. Easy to replicate from this point."

Not as easy now that the watermarks on the cheques cannot be copied. This can be spotted by a teller a mile away. And if they don't catch it...it's their fault not mine. My money will be refunded.

IKan wrote....

"Providing Canada Post gets it to the intended destination."

Providing your email reaches the intended recipient. Remember... a record of your transaction/emails are kept not only by you but the internet provider and the companies that provide the internet backbone, your bank, etc., etc., etc.

IKan said....

"My questions to date have been quite obvious the last couple times with gitterm and I did not have to phone him this last time."

Does this mean that if I intercepted your email, I could guess the answer to the question? If so, I presume that the bank could imply that the security breach was assisted by your "obvious" question and easy answer. Would they make you accountable and not refund your money?

Just my suggestion but if I were you, I'd make the questions not so obvious and follow up with the phone call. That's probably the most important part of the security feature you have.

Signed....Little Old Cheque Writer Me



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IKan on 8/14/2005 7:05:57 PM

"My questions to date have been quite obvious the last couple times with gitterm and I did not have to phone him this last time."

Does this mean that if I intercepted your email, I could guess the answer to the question? If so, I presume that the bank could imply that the security breach was assisted by your "obvious" question and easy answer. Would they make you accountable and not refund your money?

Just my suggestion but if I were you, I'd make the questions not so obvious and follow up with the phone call. That's probably the most important part of the security feature you have.

Signed....Little Old Cheque Writer Me



You are absolutely correct. I agree 100%.

However, at the time I wasn't too worried about the price of 1 share going astray. Foolish? Ya, but we all have spent and lost money more foolishly. Since we are killing time writing this (I do not mean to lower the priority of this topic just that no one wins, it is only opinions and thoughts), call it a form of gambling from someone who would never set foot in a casino and can live solely off his investments.

Heck with all the personal type info. some people put on these sites I suspect an evil minded person could reck havoc if they wanted too.

Money has watermarks and hollowgraphgs (spelling?) too but they still get by the banks and many people that handle money.

Some people cannot even use the detectors correctly I have read. I was in an insurance office recently and four of the staff where hovering over a new bill detector. They all had a different idea of how to use it. They had been trained recently. I left after approx. 15 minutes at which time they still didn't know if the bill was a fraud or not. It was a bill one of them had pulled from their own pocket. The point being that it all is human made and human managed. So there is room for errors and errors will be made as will fraud take place. Cheque, internet, electronic or cash.

Whatever works for a person is what they should use I feel. I didn't intend to offend anyone if I did.


There is no right or wrong way IMO, just different ways.

IKan


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mac0118 on 8/14/2005 8:14:49 PM

IKan,

No one offended. Your right...different stroke for different folks. And your right a no win discussion. Nuff said.

Have a great day.

Mac
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Setepen2 on 8/14/2005 8:37:39 PM

Tools,

I'll let you know when I'll receive the papers in the mail. However, here is the link if you want to request them yourself:
https://www-us.computershare.com/investor/plans/planslist.asp
Choose bank of Montreal from the column on your right and then select materials by mail on the BMO info page.

Set
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kwidla on 8/15/2005 9:27:20 AM

IKan,
I just tried to get people started with their DRIPs, as I got help to get started. I am not as comfortable giving away my bank account number, or sending my money electronically to someone I do not really know. That is just me.
I didn't really care how people send me money, and almost all options were provided. Most people send cheques. It's just a fact.
Afterwords I did what I was comfortable with, and send them a single share certificates. Now they will send that to TA. While they are sending it to the TA, they might as well include SIN to get as much paperwork out of the way as possible.
Yes, there is a chance that Canada Post will lose their mail, but they can send it register mail (if that is what they want).
Just to let you know, I did buy a share of BNS from Matt, and now I am buying BCE. In first instance I send cheque, in second I deposited my cheque directly to his account. Whatever works, right?

Kris
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mac0118 on 8/15/2005 11:49:26 AM

"Whatever works, right? "

Right! Different levels of risk taking for different people. No right or wrong way. It's like investing, younger people can handle more risk than those near retirement.

I just hope that one method is not adopted as the only option available. We need all options kept open.

Mac
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kwidla on 8/15/2005 12:43:08 PM

Mac,
I consider myself younger ... (almost 34) ... but you are right, different levels of risk that people are willing to take, and at different stages (this was my first time to do group purchase).
I like all kinds of options, but I usually pay with cheque, this gives me the paper trail I am looking for.

Kris
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IKan on 8/15/2005 6:48:35 PM

I just hope that one method is not adopted as the only option available. We need all options kept open.


Very well put I think.

I think I had a bad day yesterday and feel kinda bad about my wording and approach. My apologies.
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I have a question regarding share certificate signatures.

If a share certificate is not signed on the back side exactly as it is registered (printed on the front page) will the TA's still do the ownership transfer? I recall a TA a few years ago (ComputerShare or CIBC MEllon) telling me on the phone that it had to be signed exactly the same or they could not process it.

An example of not the same is:
Front Page: John Smith
Signature on back page: J. Smith

Anyone care to share their experience(s) with this?



Exact wording from the back of a share certificate,

"The signature to the assignment must correspond with the name as written upon the face of the certificate in every particular, without alteration or enlargement or any change whatever."


IKan
who is 44 years young.
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IKan on 8/15/2005 6:50:57 PM

Very well put I think.


Typo! Should be:

'Very well put.'

IKan
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mac0118 on 8/15/2005 9:18:04 PM

"If a share certificate is not signed on the back side exactly as it is registered"

I have never had an instance where a share cert was kicked back because of the signature not the same as the front, (mind you I think they all were the same) but knowing how "anal" TAs are with these issues, I wouldn't be suprized that they would take exception. It's probably best not to proceed in any direction that might cause these people to have to think and reason too much.

Mac

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toolsntoys4u on 8/15/2005 11:42:16 PM

i signed your share the same way i did 10 shares in CM group purchase. no one in that group had any problems whatsoever. i think all it means is that the owner should be signing the share. some people have signatures that are completely different from their actuall names, what do you do in those cases? in the end a bank guarantes a signature whatever it looks like:)

just my 2

tools. the one who singed your certificate slightly different from the name on it:)
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kwidla on 8/16/2005 10:43:38 AM

IKan,
TA could be sticky, since it is legal contract.
I had a bank tell me that my mortgage had to be signed full name, just like it is in front, not by my "real" signature ...

Kris
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codemonkeyken on 8/16/2005 10:48:33 AM

Mac & IKan,

My bank (TD) requires that my wife and I sign any share in front of the bank signing officer. As well, they always instruct us to sign it how it's spelt on the front of the share (first name, middle initial, last name). Then they check the names on the front of the share and the signatures on the back against our driver's licenses before they stamp and sign.

My advice, sign all TA correspondence (shares, anti-money laundering sheets, etc.) as they are spelt on your account/share. By doing this I have never had a problem with a TA rejecting any form.

Ken
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IKan on 8/16/2005 5:38:37 PM

I only raised the topic of signatures to see what experiences some of us have had and see what I and others might learn if anything. With the desire to help make things go as smoothly as possible in the future. It is the little details in DRIP'in I find that make the difference.

The TA's on more than one occassion have told me that the certificate must be signed the same as it is printed on the front. They said if it is spelled incorrectly on the front that the signature must match that spelling.

They also said that if an address is on the front it doesn't matter.
The name and signature is the only thing that matters.

I guess they probably do not follow their own rules (are they securities imposed laws/rules?) anymore than most other places. Since they appear to vary in what they say, and do on occasssion, per some posts here, I guess they are only as good as their staff and its training.

They sometimes do do confusing and frustrating things.

IKan


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toolsntoys4u on 8/17/2005 12:29:38 AM

ikan,

thanks for the info. something to keep in mind when transfering a share certificate.

tools


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